I was recently asked for advice about what I use for dewormer, and by the time I finished writing my response I decided to make it into a blog post!
I am philosophically opposed to using synthetic chemical/drug dewormers. For the first 2.5 years I had goats I successfully used Hoegger Supply's herbal dewormer with excellent results. When I took a goat to the vet for another issue I had the vet perform a fecal exam and he was amazed to find NO worms in ANY life stage present. That is a huge deal because even with synthetic dewormers used on a consistent schedule they expect to find a few. However, in the fall of 2011 I began to experience some health problems at the same time that my herd grew to an overwhelming size. I was struggling to meet all my responsibilities/obligations and I kept forgetting to give the goats their herbal dewormer. (It has to be given every week religiously.) I kept telling myself I wouldn't forget again, but I kept stumbling. After several times of forgetting their dewormer and having to go through the entire start up regimen which is both time consuming and costly, I decided I was going to have to give in and use synthetic dewormers until I could get things under control again. I bought the Agri-Labs brand of Ivermectin and used it faithfully according to instructions. (I believe it was once every six weeks.) In the spring of 2012 Miracle began having some problems originating with mastitis. I immediately sought medical intervention for her mastitis, but it took three rounds of antibiotics to get her cleared up. In her weakened state the parasites took hold with a vengeance. My veterinarian recommended Safeguard to me, and that is what I have used since then, though I do intend to return to the herbal dewormer protocol upon kidding. (I have reduced my herd to an easily manageable size now, currently two does with a possible acquisition of one more, and selling all this year's kids.)
I know there are people who are expert users of synthetic dewormers who talk about using "white dewormer and clear dewormer." I think it's simply an easy way to keep straight the basic classes of dewormers where the white ones attack one class of parasites and the clear dewormers attack another. I tried to find information about that, but was unsuccessful.
Rather than discuss dewormers that I have never used, I am going to refer you to some websites of folks who are more knowledgeable than I am:
Fias Co Farm is my go-to source for information. They have always been spot on with the accuracy of the information offered.
The Dairy Goat Journal is a good source for continuing education about our dairy goats. I do not have a subscription, though I've asked for one as a holiday(Christmas, birthday, Valentine's Day, etc.) gift several times. Their website offers some of their articles for free, and this one was on the cover when I went to find the link for you. How timely!
This is the author of the above article and also recommended by my "goat mentor."
6 comments:
That's amazing. Somehow herbs always seem to work better in every aspect of life. We want goats soon so I'll keep this in mind.
What a great post Michelle. I use Hoeggers though they seem to have been out. I have used Ivermectin and Safeguard too.
I had horrible luck when I tried herbals... Molly's Herbals from Fias Co Farms. I started clean slate with it.. Used chemicals before starting the herbals... Ended up with BIG problems. Bought one goat on a Hoeggers herbal regiment and she was a wreck that took forever to patch up. In this case, I know the previous owners had spurts of being diligent, and then a week or two of slacking, so I think this contributed to her poor condition and parasite overload.
So I've been a lil gun shy to try herbs again myself....
But, I do my best to limit my dependence on chemicals. I keep pens clean. Feeders out of reach of poopy hooves, hay always fed up off the ground and use copper bolusing to aid in the control of my most problematic worm, HC (barber pole).
We have no hard freezes here to break up the life cycle of parasites, so that makes it a lil more challenging as parasites can easily breed year round... But even with that, I usually deworm only once or twice per year.
Have you tried Fir Meadows herbal dewormers? A girl who bought some goats from me has been using it (in a similar climate) and so far, 9 months in, she's still having great results! :) I'm going to look into it a bit more and chat with Kat at Fir Meadows and then decide if I want to give it a try. I'm willing to consider an herbal from a herd that I admire as much as the Fir Meadow herd... Their animals look amazing!
Anything that lessens your dependency on chemicals is a GOOD THING! :)
Wow, Crystal, I'm so glad you shared your experience. I have come really close to trying Molly's Herbals. I figured it was the same stuff as Hoegger's and I'd be supporting an individual.
I agree 100% that prevention is the best medicine and keeping things clean and off the ground is crucial. My dishes are on the ground, but I have a manger for hay, and I clean the dishes regularly.
I have not tried Fir Meadows. I actually only discovered them a few weeks ago. I immediately joined their Yahoo! Group which was passed off as educational but really only used to advertise their products. After about a week of all their junk mail I left the group. I was pretty disappointed in that.
I actually recently searched your site trying to find the copper dosage you use. It always makes me so nervous to give copper because overdosing is a danger. I know someone who accidentally o.d.'ed their goats with selenium and so I know that sort of thing is a very real possibility.
Oh yea, the ads!! Haha, I'm on some Yahoo breed groups and Fir Meadows has ads for their stuff all the time! And I'm not saying Molly's is awful, but here, in this climate, it just wasn't able to touch the killers like HC.
And no worries on copper!! Yes, selenium is easy to OD on, especially if enough vitamin e is not given at the same time to help properly utilize it.
Copper on the other hand is VERY hard to over dose. You can find the link to Joyce Lazarros in depth copper studies in my copper bolusing blog. The key is to #1, use the proper kind of copper. Pat Colby gave some HORRIBLE advise in one of her books advising to feed copper sulfate daily. Lots of goats ended up with fried livers (one of mine included!) because of that bogus info. The copper sulfate isn't able to be utilized properly, and it's all run through the system at once
Copper bolusing uses copper wire particles that are copper oxide. These tiny particles go down to the bottom of the rumens and settle, then are gradually dissolved over a period of months. It's a slow release, easily absorbed copper. Studies were done with over dosing and even given at 5 times the listed dosage, no harm was caused. This is because a portion of the particles do get swept through the digestive system quickly and only a portion actually settle to the bottom and lodge. Then because they have to slowly be dissolved over a period of months, it's just VERY hard to OD on the copper oxide.
Knowing that not all of the rods will lodge and stay in ths rumen, I give very deficient goats a dose as listed. Wait 3 weeks, give another dose, then set them on a normal dosing schedule.
As an experiment one year I bolused a freezer wether at 5 times the listed dose. Did it again every 2 months (I typically bolus every 3-4 months), plus I left his minerals out free choice. Healthy, growthy booger and when we butchered him we sent off liver samples for a copper analysis so I could see if his levels were in the damaging zone.... Liver came back very healthy, with copper levels at the high end of the normal/good spectrum :)
My goal was to see if with big over dosing how safe the copper was, and turns out the research is legit. It's pretty hard to OD on copper if you are using copper oxide particles as found in Copasure. :)
Really recommend the Saanendoah article by Joyce Lazarro... All of the experiment controls and actual lab results on literally hundreds of goats are documented in her study and it's a fascinating read :)
Did you deliberately move that post to your most famous postings so I could find it? I tried to refer a new goat owner to your blog about copper bolusing just a few weeks ago, and I never could find it. Thank you!
I KWYM about what works for Molly, or any other certain climate, doesn't work in yours.
That is good to know about Selenium needing vitamin E. I knew they were complimentary, but I did not know that they were required partners. I threw my tube of Vitamin E + Selenium away after my friend's experience combined with learning that we are not in a selenium deficient area.
Yes, I only use COWPs for my copper bolusing so that overdose risk is minimized. Thank you for sharing about your experiment. that helps me feel much more confident about it's safety.
I'm off to read the Lazarro article now!
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